timbo
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by timbo on Jul 16, 2014 17:32:40 GMT -5
11ft SUP 'Inspiration'The idea for my latest project all started when on holiday in Florida earlier this year where I saw people on SUP’s close up when I was kayaking. I thought, I like the look of that, and went back to the villa did a web search. It was there I found Chad’s site and ordered the SUP plans. Now that seems like a long time ago but I had a lot of ‘chores’ to do when I returned to good old UK and before I could start. You know what I mean guys, you have to keep ‘she who must be obeyed’ sweet if you want to play! So when I had the time I read just about everyone’s comments on the forum, viewed all the pictures and built up a lot of info. This undoubtedly completed my ‘Inspiration’ to build my own SUP so thanks to all you previous contributors. But now the time has come and I’m raring to go. Before I start I should say that I have past experience in building a strip wood kayak so I’m not a total novice and also have a fair collection of wood working tools' My basic toolsHere is a picture of some basic tools, clamps glues, etc that I need to complete the build. Not a complete gallery but certainly enough without going over the top. The low angled block plane is brilliant, I bought a really cheap one to build the kayak and it works a treat especially if you keep the blade ultra sharp. There are lots out there and some cost a fortune but I couldn’t really justify the price. This one came from fleabay as did the 4mm bungee, Titebond, shrink wrap, tape and the pull saw. The market stall style clamps came from some chap selling them at the local Friday market. The bungee clamps are simply pieces of scrap plywood with V’s cut in either end to trap the bungee when under tension. No, I’m not anal, I painted them because they always seem to get lost when you need them in a hurry and blue was the only colour I had! Oh, I nearly forgot the plastic paper spine bars which I cut into 50mm lengths and slip onto the strips, as shown on the small strip in the photo, to protect them when I tension the bungee. If you don’t put them on then the bungee will crush the wood when tensioned. Again, I used nearly all of these tools and techniques to build the kayak.
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timbo
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by timbo on Jul 16, 2014 17:37:01 GMT -5
TimberI’ve managed to source and gather together most of the timber needed. I’m using 6mm birch plywood for the frames and spine and mostly contrasting dark and light cedar planks to cut the strips from with a few thin contrasting strips of Wenge (very black) and the odd piece of white wood. All of which took some time to select and are all knot free. The build Well at long last I’ve started. I cut out the frames and the spine, put in the lightening holes and assembled the whole thing on my old but modified kayak strongback. First I used a tensioned line running from the back to the front to aligned the spine and then used a hot melt glue gun and some vertical strips of wood to hold it in position. I then did a dry run slotting in the frames and making sure that everything would fit before finally gluing up. As you can see it all went fairly well. I also used hot melt glue to fix the ‘legs’ on the frames to keep them in line and make them stable. I then added the thin 6mm square cedar mini rails making sure that the shape was as fair/uniform as possible. _ Notice the frame height measuring gauge I made with a paper ruler downloaded from the web. This ensure uniformity, no frame twisting or board warping at a later stage. This shows the gauge with a centre upright (slightly off centre to allow for the spine thickness). This is placed against the spine to ensure the two rulers are equidistant from the middle. I did have the same problem as most others with some of the middle frames being slightly narrower than the spine. I made sure the bottom of the frames and spine were flush and shaved the excess from the top of the spine with a spoke shave.
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Post by juliangibraltar on Jul 17, 2014 0:22:05 GMT -5
Excellent Tim, great to see you've started!! Looking forward to seeing the development and totally appreciate the good detailed information on the build. ALso keen to see who you use some of the tools you describe! I take it by the layout of the frame that you'll probably be doing a different type of rail design to the triangular one? I'm still waiting for the resin and cloth!!!!!!
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timbo
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by timbo on Jul 17, 2014 17:28:55 GMT -5
Thanks Julian, re the rail system Chad's idea is brilliant but I want to put a layer of cloth on the inside of the deck so I have to strip the top first. For the life of me I couldn't work out a way to do it with the triangle system so opted for the same system as Blair used. If something springs to mind then there is still time to change the method. Today was spent -------- Cutting StripsHere are some photos of my sawing set up. I used a ladder with some rollers on the top as an in feed table and some roller stands as the out feed. My combination machine is a really old Mini Max that I bought from a friend who emigrated to New Zealand. It’s a cracking bit of kit, solid cast iron construction but unfortunately difficult to get spares for if you need them. I put a good sharp 42 tooth blade in the saw and used homemade feather boards to ensure the wood was always tight up against the fence to ensure uniform thickness (6.5mm) and would not kick back. Polished the saw table with wax to make it easier and then set about cutting strips of the same thickness but different widths for what seemed like an eternity. The 42 tooth blade leaves a superb finish that doesn’t need any additional work providing you keep the wood feeding through without stopping. As each strip is cut I number them so I can grain match if needed. Well I can't wait to start stripping as they say! Unfortunately it will have to wait until the weekend before I can start. So I'm ulikely to post again until next week.
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Post by juliangibraltar on Jul 17, 2014 23:37:28 GMT -5
Love the roller ladder set up! Regards the cloth for the deck, all I can thing of is to build the board upside down, starting with the deck instead of the bottom...and then flip it over and glass the inside. In theory I cant think of why not, you should be able to place the hand grip block and the fin blocks on the inside of the deck just as easy as on the bottom.....anyway, looking forward to the build pics.
One quick question to anyone out there also....I bought some Expoxi Resin with no UV protection....and now I'm waiting for some Epoxi Resin with UV Protection...could I use the one with no protection for the cheater coat and rthe lay over it the UV protection epoxi? Will it be UV protected and is it best not to mix resins anyway???
Rented a SUP yesterday to keep in the game and tried surfing....hahaha boy is that harder than it looks, didnt catch any waves, just kept falling off (which is a good reminder of what type of grip effect I need to look at so I dont get full body rash) Bit concerned that when they see my lovely HWSUP they'll think I know what I'm doing!!
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timbo
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by timbo on Jul 18, 2014 13:18:10 GMT -5
Hi Julian, I shall be building it upside down and strip the deck first. What I meant was that doing it this way means I don't think I can use the triangle system. My understanding is that the rails fit the bottom first as it's flat, then you have to shape to match the top of the rails to the frames before you put the deck on.
Re the resin, I don't know much about epoxy resin with a uv protector. I use West System and then spray a coat of car laquer on afterwards to protect from the sun etc. Much quicker, easier, durable and more flexible than varnish. You might be able to get away with using a different type of epoxy resin as a cheater coat. It will also pay you to thin down the cheater coat with acetone to a max of 10%. The end product will be thinner, easier to apply and it will soak into the wood a bit better. I know I keep on about it but seeing as you live in a relatively warm climate don't forget to apply when the temp is falling. This is the single most important thing to remember when glassing.
Surfers used to use wax on the top of their boards to stop slipping off. Have a great weekend.
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timbo
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by timbo on Jul 22, 2014 16:54:05 GMT -5
Laying the first strips
As you can see I’ve started ‘stripping’ using mainly market stall style clamps and bungee cord to hold it all in place while the glue sets. I’m using Titebond III which is a great glue and used widely in the stripping fraternity. When you build kayaks you don’t want the strips to stick to the frames/formers because you have to remove the finished hull later. Obviously the SUP is the opposite so you need downward pressure on the strips at the frame while the glue sets. There are several ways of doing this with ingenious homemade clamping devices that people have thought of and used over the years. I will no doubt use a combination of these including spring clamps, etc, as the build progresses. The sandpaper stuck to the back of the clamps stops them slipping on the frames when clamped. The strip in the foreground is shown edge on, has a shoulder cut in it and is tapered like a dovetail. The shoulder allows you to push the strips together and the dovetail ensures it sits flat on the strip when clamped to apply downward pressure. See photo below where I have used them on each frame in conjunction with ‘bungee clamps’ to keep the joints together in between frames.
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timbo
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by timbo on Jul 22, 2014 16:56:37 GMT -5
I cut the Wenge, mentioned earlier, into small ¼ inch strips to use as a really dark contrasting line. As it was only 6 feet long I had to join 2 pieces so, to ensure a good strong bond, I used a scarf joint. The photo shows the two pieces ready for joining. I will also make sure that the joint sits on top of a frame for added strength when laying the deck strips. Well it all gets a bit boring for you guys now. Stripping is stripping, it’s a fairly slow progress but very satisfying to see the fruits of your labour and the board grow before you eyes. So, I will just post the odd picture or two to update on the progress before I go into dialogue mode again. Good luck to all those still building or starting to build. Catch you all again soon.
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Post by txtommy on Jul 22, 2014 21:39:02 GMT -5
Looking good Timbo. I'm still in the process of building my rocker jig, ripping jig and I'm also making a shaping/glassing stand. What kinda of wood are you using for the decking? Love the ingenuity with the clamps and bungee cord. Definetly update your progress with pics and explanation. I'm completely new to woodworking so I try to saturate myself with as much info read here and elsewhere as possible.
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timbo
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by timbo on Jul 23, 2014 3:08:56 GMT -5
Hi Tommy I'm using Western Red Cedar for all of the board except for the small contrasting strips of Wenge. I would have used black walnut but could not find any dark enough. The Cedar has lots of colour variation too, the white comes from the sap wood and the chocolate from the heart wood it's very expensive over this side of the pond not like you lucky guys! White Cedar is also available to you guys too, it's even lighter and more flexible than red so try and source some of that. I had to travel over 120 miles to find a decent wood yard that sold A Grade (Knot free) Cedar but they let me select what I wanted so I chose some dark and some pale. Try this for your fins, a really good site - www.blendingcurves.com/temps/fins - I think Julian posted the link somewhere else on the forum. Oh, try this kayak stripping site and look at the workshop tips on stripping, glassing, etc. Again a really good read and will deepen your understanding - www.laughingloon.com/ Take care, Tim
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Post by juliangibraltar on Jul 23, 2014 3:20:32 GMT -5
Tim, can you give me a brand name or any specifics on the "car lacquer" you use to finish the board (spray, brush?) - the reason is that the local knowledge seems limited as to wether it can be used on a board and I want to make sure what I get is correct. The local supplier of resin isnt being particularly helpful on the anti UV addition as I only want a small quantity so have decided to go ahead with the unprotected resin and then just finish it with either your car lacquer idea or some sort of spar varnish (car lacquer sounds better/more economical!).
Waited over a week for a local shop to provide me with fibreglass cloth and yesterday found out it was 150mm wide not 150cms wide.....so back to the drawing board and ordering it on-line. Recommendation to anyone out there, unless you find a shop that knows what they're talking about get it on line, the on-line shops are clearly specialised in this type of thing and can advise and send the correct stuff, silly me for swimming against the tide!
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Post by txtommy on Jul 23, 2014 10:46:04 GMT -5
Tim thanks for the info. Julian I was able to find 6oz fiberglass cloth on EBay at 50" wide by 30 ft long for $50. Have not ordered yet because I'm not even close to that point but they had different weights listed besides the 6oz. Hope that helps
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Post by txtommy on Jul 23, 2014 10:48:47 GMT -5
Tim I also forgot to add that I'm very lucky that I've got a wood specialty shop in my hometown and I'm looking at a combo of Spanish cedar, basswood and red cedar for my board. Hopefully next week I can start picking some out
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timbo
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by timbo on Jul 23, 2014 13:34:34 GMT -5
Julian
The car lacqer is "2K clear coat" (generic term). It dries in really quick time so it has to be sprayed. I would suggest that any auto repair and respray company is bound to have it. Very little else is used today in the car industry. Fundamentally cars are sprayed with a colour that is normally matt and then lacquered with a clear gloss coat. I used about 1.5 litres on my Kayak but maybe you will need a little more on the SUP because the surface area, believe it or not, is a little larger larger. Well I have cut more strips than I did for my kayak! I would suggest 2 Ltrs is ample.
I used Clostermann which I found on 'fleabay' and it just happened to be in Swindon some 3 miles from my door. There are several other makes, for example Max Meyer, U Pol. I asked for the spec sheet but all 2K, to my knowledge, is UV protective. Fundamentally it stops the colour fading which used to be a big problem a few years ago especially in hot sunny climates. Anyway, it's been on my kayak for some 3 years nearly and is still brilliant. Hard as nails, duarble and flexible, car door panels etc, flex and don't crack. Your board won't flex that much that's for sure. Also varnish has to be applied every year and it's a real pain if you want to get a good finish with no bugs, dust etc. The lacquer can also be polished to get rid of any bits if you are unfortunate enough to get any. Unless you have a spray gun I would get a quote from the local body shop. Just make sure they use 2K and not 1K and satisfy yourself about the UV protection by reading the spec sheet.
Don't forget to ask for your fibreglass cloth to be put on a roll with no folds or creases.
Tommy
You are a lucky guy having a good wood supplier near by. Not too sure what Spanish Cedar looks like but will Google.
Take care both.
Tim
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timbo
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by timbo on Jul 24, 2014 17:30:10 GMT -5
Deck Stripped I’ve now finished the top and have given it a quick sand with 60 grit using a Random Orbital Sander (ROS). The secret is to clean as much glue off first especially if you are using Titebond or similar, this stops it clogging up the paper on the sander because the glue tends to melt a little. I cleaned mine with the low angled block plane shown in the earlier picture. With a sharp blade (I always touch it up on a stone before I start) you can get beautiful see-through thin ribbons with every stroke of the plane, extremely satisfying. Doing it this way I only used 2 x 60 grit discs for the whole of the top. I shall leave it now and sand down going through the grits and finishing with 200 before putting on a cheater coat of resin when the board is finished. It’s very tempting to smooth it further at this stage but I know through my experience with kayaks that the deck will most certainly pick up a few dents and scratches when stripping the bottom and rails. Leaving it will ensure that there is sufficient wood left to sand out any of these blemishes. I couldn’t resist wetting half the board to see the true colours come through! You will have to enlarge the photo to see the strips of wenge. Another set of handy homemade ‘tools’ are these aluminium oxide files, you can of course make them with whatever size grit you like. I use off cuts from the strips, spray with contact adhesive and stick on the material backed aluminium oxide. Great for just touching up the edges of the last strip you have glued to the board to ensure you get a good gap free fit. Also good for getting a ‘fair’ line when rounding the nose or tail. Well the next stage is to remove the SUP from the temporary legs and turn upside down before cleaning the inside of the top deck and stripping the bottom for the board. I will make some formers to rest the board on by drawing the top curve of frames 4, 8 and 13 on some old ply, cutting around the curves and using the concave pieces covered in old carpet or hard foam for protection. Hope to post again in a few days or so – enjoy.
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