Post by juliangibraltar on Jul 3, 2014 7:05:31 GMT -5
Thanks Mike, that might work, making a paste, I guess with regular wood glue - I used superglue before which only gave me 3 seconds to work! At this point I still may go for the easier option of waterproof wood filler as I am also concerned the cracks are on the glue line and I really want to make sure the consistency is right to harden and seal......I'll wait a couple of days to see what else pops up. Hey, I hope you are having a better time with your board after your last report on your "wish I'd stayed in bed" day!!
haha yep, better days always follow the bad ones. I've had good luck patching previous jobs by mixing sawdust and wood glue. it'll look more natural than using wood filler, which never cures to the color you want, ever.
Hi Julian, you could try doing your cheater coat and see if that helps fill any of your small cracks then fill what's remaining with some saved sanding dust and resin,at least that way you shouldn't get that staining from trying to fill the cracks, had that problem also on a couple of spots and it's a real bugger to get everything looking good again. Just don't sand back through the cheater coat as that could caused discolouration as well.
Post by juliangibraltar on Jul 6, 2014 14:12:35 GMT -5
Thanks guys, I went with the glue and sawdust and it seemed to work a lot better.....also tried to do it a lot neater! Overall the stains of the first effort are still there but a little more subtle and the new efforts are almost invisible....remember for next time. Two pics with the right hand side of the board showing the previous glue marks and the left hand side showing yesterdays glue paste marks....much better.
Well, have sanded and now only the glass and resin to go!
Post by juliangibraltar on Jul 10, 2014 0:40:13 GMT -5
HI guys....this sounds a bit stupid but I'm a little unclear on the resin and glassing process and as I hope to do this this weekend I would appreciate any input from anyone who's done it. I am not using cloth by the way so I'll let you all know how it fairs over time.
My local Epoxy resin supplier in Spain tells me to put each layer on while the previous one is still tacky....not a problem and certainly have read up on this to get a better bond. My question is that once I have put the tape around the rails to stop the drips and create the overlap point do I do the top deck first....all 3 or 4 layers....and then turn the board over and do the same for the bottom. OR do I do the cheater coat on the deck, wait till it dries, take the tape off, re-tape, do the bottom cheater coat...wait till it dries, do the tape, then the next layer etc etc......you see where my confusion lies, how can I turn the board over if its still tacky but then how can i get a good bond if all the layers dry, I know I can sand it between coats but is this the best way?Doing my head in!
Well, it seems like a basic question but I cant seem to find a clear answer anywhere. My thought would be:
1. apply tape along rail and do the bottom cheater coat, wait till tacky and apply 2nd and 3rd layers
2. remove tape, turn board over, re-apply tape and do the deck cheater coat, wait till tacky, apply 2nd and 3rd coat
3. remove tape, sand edges on rails and apply a top coat or varnish (with no tape), sand when dry and add final gloss coat.
Hi Julian, sorry I'm not much help with the resin as I let mine dry between coats and just worked through it without going mad. Have a question though why no glass? I would think you'd need that for strength as there is not a lot of strength in the wood especially the seams where there is no support. Anyway good luck with the resining, be in the water before you know it.
Actually after writing the above I went back through your post and see you filled your board with foam which probably gives the whole board a lot of strength. Look forward to seeing how it all goes, will be interested to hear a final weight.
Post by juliangibraltar on Jul 10, 2014 5:14:39 GMT -5
Hi Blair, yes my board in the end was filled with expanding foam so strength wise it should be ok...also it will take a while to order the cloth online and I have managed to find some epoxy resin locally!!!
Even though you worked through it and sanded in between (which may happen to me as the epoxy supplier cant tell me how long before it gets tacky so I may miss the window!) did you do the deck, then bottom, then go back to deck then bottom etc. or all the deck layers then all the bottom layers......am I getting super anal here for no reason....possibly! : )
I'll jump in here. I went top bottom top bottom about 5 times sanding between each coat. Don't forget to use masking tape to keep the resin from running across the down side of the board, be sure to pull it off before it completely cures. I waited about 2 hours, when the epoxy was a nice jelly consistency.
First Julian I would not spoil the ship for ha'penny worth of tar. You have spent a long time and lots of hard work to get where you are today with your SUP. My view is that if you started with 1/4 inch (6mm) wood strips by the time you sanded them down (deck area and bottom) you will have lost at least 1 to 2mm of thickness. I know that you have filled the middle with foam but I dont think that will give you the same rigidity as a layer of cloth. Those of us that have built stripwood kayaks are aware that the strength lies in the cloth either side of the wood (fibreglass wood sandwich) and we don't stand on them either! That said, apart from a couple of bulkheads, there are no supporting frames as per the SUP which will clearly limit any flexing.
If I remember someone on the forum built one and even glassed the inside of the top deck to give added strength.
Having said all of that I assume that 1974 did not glass his and like you he foamed the inside so I would be very interested to find out how often he uses it and how it's standing up. Have any of the planks popped or cracked etc! Maybe I'm being a bit belt and braces about all this but hey like I said you have spent a lot of time etc building it although you clearly also can't wait to launch it and I fully understand that too. Anyway good luck either way.
I am just about to start mine and will fundamentally be stripping it as per a kayak build rather than making a skin from strips and then bending it and gluing to the skeleton. I know it takes a little longer but in my view there is less stress on the wood, no glue joints failing and so forth. Beside that I'm retired and every day is Sunday! I have just bought the cedar, ply, etc and will be posting progress with lots of pics soon.
I do have a question for those who have finished and that is, approx where on the board is the balance point for the finger hold style 'handle', if that's the correct terminology?
Post by juliangibraltar on Jul 11, 2014 0:05:36 GMT -5
Tim hi, I think you're right and I know that if it was easier to get the cloth I would get it rather than rush into this at this stage, so frustrating!! IT's not going to get very hard use but it will get lots and thinking about "fixing" it if it does pop actually will do my head in more....so I'll order the cloth and wait!
Regards the balance point its around Rib 8 and 9 if memories serves me well, overall there are 16 ribs, so roughly in the middle. What I did was pick it up when the ribs and spine were glued and work out the balance....of course doesnt take into account that the nose is probably heavier than the tail but also the tail has a few extra bits for the fin blocks etc. I actually put my handle block between ribs 8-9 but would have preferred to actually cut a chunk out of rib 9 (I think) and put the block there, on the actual rib. Thats about as precise as I can get.
Looking forward to seeing your build...as a strip builder no doubt it will be fabulous!! Will definitely use as a guide for my next one for she who has to be obeyed!
I think you made the right decision. Don't forget the links I sent to Rob Macks workshop tips which includes getting a transparent glass finish etc. Do remember the bit about applying the resin, including the cheater coat, when the temperature is dropping so the wood sucks it in. If you apply and the temperature rises the wood will gass, even after the cheater coat, and you will have several if not lots of small bubbles where the gass has pushed the cloth away from the surface. I did my kayak deck exactly as recommended with the temperature dropping and not rising but left the blind in the workshop open and on the side where the sun came in and warmed up the deck --guess what!!
You can also find some really good vids on uTube for glassing wood strip kayaks, all are worth looking at and learning. This guy also has lots on his site.
Oh, when you order your glass cloth make absolutely certain it comes rolled up on a tube and not folded otherwise you will never get the creases out properly and they will show through after glassing.
Thanks for the info on the handle block I guess you can never get it exact but somewhere close will do and I thought that between ribs 8 and 9 would be about right. I just want to glue the pre made block onto the spine before stripping the deck and then drill through afterwards.
Take care and trust me it will be worth the wait in the end.
Post by juliangibraltar on Jul 13, 2014 6:58:27 GMT -5
Hi Tim and all....well I spent the day yesterday seeing if anyone in Tarifa (windsurfing capital of europe) had any glass I could buy off them but noone was very helpful, appears they were worried about competition from me HAHAHAHA!!! So, I am definitely getting some material online and some other bits like a fin box and fin and leash plug, so hopefully will get that before next weekend and start glassing next weekend.
I am currently trawling through the internet and all sites relating to glassing and keep coming across different methods...not very different but enough to warrant confusion (someone says always start with the bottom and someone else says always start with the deck for example!), so I am copy/pasting all relevant info for a wooden board from good sources so I only have one place to look at when I start...trying to get a very simple step by step guide that doesnt leave anything out. I imagine you've all guessed I can be a bit anal at times haha!
Well the good news for me is that the board weighs in at 62lbs (28kgs) before any glassing which I thought was bloody heavy but seems to be more or less in line with some others....dont forget I've also foamed her! My next one will try and be somewhat lighter!
Just for interest it was good to hear that the cloth was important for the weak joints in the gluing rather than the actual wood snapping which is where my mind was and also someone mentioned t5hat the fine sanding was to get the pores as closed as possible before glassing which is also good to know as I was wondering why so much effort on the sanding when you are going to glass over it anyway!! You see, I like to know why I'm doing something !
Ok, so now we wait for the supplies to come!
Oh final question, I bought some Monster Paint (deck grip paint) ....any comments on whether to use that or not. I thought if I cover the whole deck will my knees hurt if I need to kneel at any point?
Not too sure about the deck paint - I assume it's transparent! Anyway, why not try withough first and if it's too slippery then maybe give it a go. What about a pair of summer type wet boots/shoes, they should give you enough grip if you need it. I just don't like the idea of spoiling the look of the deck especially after all that hard work.
Good luck with getting all your supplies and with the actual glassing etc.
Post by juliangibraltar on Jul 13, 2014 10:50:01 GMT -5
Hi Tim, yes its transparent, its called paint but it seems to be a well endorsed spray traction in a can! Have a look at the site. www.monster-spray.co.nz/index.php Like you say, after all the work I dont want to cover the wood up but this was actually available locally....from a real person!!! So I had to buy it!
Post by juliangibraltar on Jul 26, 2014 1:23:11 GMT -5
Hi everyone, Yesterday evening (as the temp was falling thanks Tim) I laid out a cheater coat on the bottom. Basically I have some epoxy resin and am still waiting for cloth and finbox etc. so needed to do something. It seems to have soaked it in a lot (with a couple of pink spots, damn!) and I was wondering whether it is worth doing 2 coats of cheater or is this a complete waste of time and simply me being impatient.